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Πέμπτη, Φεβρουαρίου 09, 2006

Χωρίς τίτλο

φοβάμαι μήπως ο Κ. αυτοκτονήσει γιατί οι προσδοκίες του είναι υπεράνω της τωρινής πραγματικότητας.
Δεν μου έχει πεί τίποτα τέτοιο, εν τούτοις βλέπω μία παραίτηση απο τη ζωή του, τη ζωή μας, τη ζωή γενικά.

Μου πήρε πάνω απο ένα χρόνο για να μπορέσω να ποστάρω αυτή μου τη σκέψη, είναι ίσως το δυσκολώτερο πράγμα που έχω κάνει τελευταία, να πώ με λόγια αυτό που έχω μέσα μου και με τρώει. Με τρώει 1 χρόνο τώρα. Δεν θα κάτσω να κυττάξω το θέμα απο θρησκευτικής, ψυχολογικής, ορθολογιστικής πλευράς, τα αφήνω αυτά για τους "έξω-απο-το-χορό μπλαμπλάδες".

Οταν το συνειδητοποίησα διαπίστωσα ότι παρόλλη τη διαφορετική άποψη που έχουμε για τη ζωή, τρέμω μήπως τον χάσω γιατί αυτό θα συνεπάγεται με
  • το ότι δεν θα τον βλέπω πιά, δεν θα μοιράζεται τη ζωή μου, δεν θα κυττάμε πρός την ίδια κατεύθυνση για το κοινό μας μέλλον, δεν θα είναι εδώ
  • ψυχολογικό κατρακύλισμα δικό μου
  • βίαιη ανακατάταξη των δεδομένων της ζωής μου

όλες αυτές και άλλες τόσες σκέψεις που αφορούν την εγωϊστική μου πάρτη και όχι για τον άνθρωπο που θα φύγει

Ισως και να μη θέλει να φύγει, το ένστικτό μου όμως αισθάνεται μία παραίτηση, μία απομάκρυνση, μία κατάθλιψη, μία αποχώρηση, ένα κλείσιμο στα μύχια του εαυτού.

Είναι δύσκολο για μένα να λέω δημόσια αυτό το πράγμα γιατί είναι σοβαρό.

Λύση δεν υπάρχει γιατί δεν θέλει κανέναν να τον βοηθήσει.

Το είπα

αλλά δεν ξαλάφρωσα

81 σχόλια:

Tina είπε...

Μαρινα,
Κουραγιο. Τι αλλο να πω?
Just be there for him, for both of you.

Xνούδι είπε...

ναι!!! να εισαι εκεί και να του λες πόσο τον νοίαζεσαι.

Να τον βοηθήσεις όσο μπορείς. Είναι καλό που πιάνεις στον αέρα αυτά που γράφεις. Θα μπορούσες να μην έχεις καταλάβει τπτ.

Να είσαι εκεί. Ακουμε που σου λέω.

Οσο για την εγωιστική πλευρά της απώλειας, είναι ένα φυσιολογικό στοιχείο μας. Είμαστε ένθρωποι.

Μαζι σου κι εμείς. Καληνύχτα.

Markos είπε...

Τα είπες αλλά δεν ξαλάφρωσες, γιατί, μάλλον, δεν τα είπες όλα.

KV είπε...

ουφ ... δύσκολο Μαρίνα μου, και σκληρό. Δεν είσαι εγωίστρια : νοιάζεσαι. Όπως ακριβώς σου είπε και η Μελ(ωδία), νομίζω ότι το καλύτερο που μπορείς να κάνεις είναι να είσαι εκεί. Διακριτικά εκεί, να νοιάζεσαι και να του μιλάς. ΚΑΙ να προσέχεις τον εαυτό σου ... είναι ΚΑΙ αυτό σημαντικό ...

Mikrouli είπε...

Τα είπαν όλα...

Δεν μου μένει παρά να σου ευχηθώ να είναι μόνο φόβος από την αγάπη που του έχεις και την ανασφάλεια που συνεπάγεται η απουσία του...

Μην το αφήσεις να σε τρώει.

Να είσαι εκεί και για εκείνον αλλά κυρίως για εσένα! Με εσένα και εκείνον παρέα θα έχεις πολλά ωραία να ανταμώσεις ακόμη. Αρκεί να μην παραιτηθείς από την τρομάρα...

Όσο για το εάν είσαι εγωϊστρια ή όχι, αυτό κορίτσι μου είναι τελείως σχετικό...

Ξέρεις άλλωστε ότι η απώλεια συνδέεται με την συνήθεια (δεν την εννοώ με την έννοια της παραίτησης) και είναι πολύ φυσιολογικό να σκεφτόμαστε τον τρόπο που θα μας επηρρεάσει μια πιθανή αλλαγή (απίθανη στην περίπτωσή σου είμαι σίγουρο!)δεδομένων.

Κάτι ακόμα...

Οκ, να του μιλάς, να είσαι εκεί να είσαι χαρούμενη που έχεις βρει έναν τόσο αξιόλογο άνθρωπο να σε καταλαβαίνει και να σου συμπαραστέκεται, αλλά αυτό που με σόκαρε είναι το χρονικό διάστημα που σκέφτεσαι αυτά που σκέφτεσαι και δεν μιλάς...

Γιατί; Είναι η αίσθηση οτι εάν εξωτερικεύσεις τους πιο μύχειους φόβους σου αυτοί θα βγουν αληθινοί;

Μην κολλάς σε παρακαλώ πουθενά!

Να μιλάς! Σε εμάς, σε φίλους, σε εσένα, και εάν η έκτη σου αίσθηση στο επιτρέπει, στον Κ...

Σε σκέπτομαι υγιή και χαρούμενη μπροστά από την αρπαγμένη τυρόπιτα να γελάς αγκαλιά του που έχασες τόση ώρα να διαβάσεις το σχόλιό μου και αγαλιάζει η ψυχή μου στο θέαμα.

Να'σαι ΠΑΝΤΑ ΚΑΛΑ! ΜΑΖΙ ΜΕ ΤΟΝ Κ!!!

Marina είπε...

Tina, ευχαριστώ

Mελ(ωδία) ευχαριστώ και εσένα. Απλά προσπαθώ να είμαι εκεί. Μόνο που αισθάνομαι καμμιά φορά ότι ενώ με θεωρεί βράχο, έχω πήλινα πόδια για να μη πώ ότι είναι και χάρτινα..πόσο θα αντέξω δεν ξέρω

Marko, όλα τα είπα, δυστυχώς τα είπα όλα. Τα έχω παίξει όλα στα ζάρια στη ζωή μου και έχω χάσει πολλές φορές, πέθανε το παιδί, η μαμά μου, ο μπαμπάς μου, δεν μπορώ άλλους θανάτους, όχι δεν μπορώ.

KV, να προσέχω λές τον εαυτό μου, ναί όσο και όπως μπορώ...πίνω βέβαια λίγο παραπάνω, αλλά το ελέγχω, αισθάνομαι πιό δυνατή μετά απο λίγο ουϊσκυ..άσε που κοιμάμαι και καλύτερα..

Μικρούλι, αχ βρε μικρούλι που δεν είσαι και τόσο μικρούλι για να μιλάς τόσο σοφά! Στην κανονική μου ζωή και για όλο τον κόσμο είμαι μία Daily madness, όνομα και πράγμα, κανείς δεν καταλαβαίνει πώς αισθάνομαι, μπορεί να καίγομαι και να βγαίνει τα 3 πουλάκια που κάθονται και καίνε τη τυρόπιττα..Μερικοί με λένε ψηλομύτα, είναι κι αυτό μέρος του παιχνιδιού..μόνο εδώ στην εικονική πραγματικότητα μου μπορώ να μιλήσω στους εικονικούς μου φίλους. Δεν με κολλάει να πώ το όνομά μου, να δείξω το πρόσωπό μου, να πώ ποιά είμαι σε εσάς..εμαθα να χρειάζομαι το μπλόγκ για να αδειάζω λίγο-λίγο τα παπλώματα που κουβαλώ..

ellinida είπε...

Ταράχτηκα . Κάποιες φορές η ζωή πονάει τόσο πολύ που σου είναι αδύνατον να την αντιμετωπίσεις . Εχω περάσει από εκεί . Χαίρομαι που επέζησα . Βγήκα πιό δυνατή από αυτές τις εμπειρίες .
Τώρα , μετά από πολλά χρόνια έμαθα να μετατρέπω τον πόνο σε ομορφιά . Αντέχεται πιό εύκολα .
Η ζωή είναι ωραία τελικά . Κοιτάω πίσω μου και αισθάνομαι ότι νίκησα .
Δείξε του πόσο τον αγαπάς , πόσο τον χρειάζεσαι , πόσο θα σου κόστιζε η απουσία του . Δείξε του πόσο σου είναι απαραίτητος . Αγάπα τον .
Εγώ θα το συζητούσα με τον Κ.
Μην μένεις με σταυρωμένα τα χέρια να πνίγεσαι στους φόβους σου . Θα σε συμβούλευα να πας σε ψυχολόγο για συμβουλές .
Το φως σίγουρα θα έρθει μετά το σκοτάδι . Είναι το μόνο που μπορώ να σου υποσχεθώ .
Καλημέρα .

KV είπε...

Κούκλα, το κεφάλι ψηλά. Δεν έχω ζήσει τις απώλειές σου, αλλά σε νοιώθω. Αλήθεια. Σημασία έχει να βγείΤΕ (και οι δύο) από το τούνελ. Ελπίζω, σου εύχομαι, να βγείτε μαζί. Πιστεύω ότι η Ελληνιδα σου είπε το καλύτερο. Μίλα στον Κ και βρείτε ένα ψυχολόγο αν μπορείτε μαζί, αν όχι βρες έναν μόνη σου. Χρειάζεσαι κάποιον να μιλάς, κάποιον που μπορεί να σε οδηγήσει στην λύση ... Είναι όντως εικονική η επαφή μέσα από τα μπλόγκ αλλά ελπίζω να καταλαβαίνεις ότι είμαστε εδώ ...
Καλησπέρα

Marina είπε...

Tη λύση την έχω δώσει προ πολλού στον εαυτό μου και βέβαια αφού μίλησα με άλλους συναδέλφους consultants της ψυχής..να κάνω αυτό που κάνω εδώ και 1 χρόνο..
Stand by him..
Μέχρι και τραγούδι στο μπλόγκ το έβαλα μήπως και πιάσει..κάπου όμως έχω αρχίσει να σκάω..

KV είπε...

Τότε μήπως είναι ώρα καλή μου να αρχίσεις να δίνεις λίγο παραπάνω φροντίδα και στον εαυτό σου;;; Χωρίς να τον αφήνεις ή να τον παραμελείς, ίσως τελικά αυτό να κάνει καλό και στους δύο.

Καλό σου βράδυ

nyctolouloudo είπε...

ταράχτηκα...γιατί γράφεις για πράγματα που έχω περάσει ... αυτά με τους θανάτους!

ταράχτηκα...γιατί μου θύμησες κάτι δικό μου.

ταράχτηκα...γιατί το μυαλό μου είχε κολλήσει στην αυτοκτονία για χρόνια...

ταράχτηκα.. γιατί ξέρω ό,τι ο άνθρωπός μου έτρεμε για μένα.
είχε δει στα μάτια μου τον πόνο, την παραίτηση από τη ζωή, την κατάθλιψη, την απομάκρυνση, την αποχώρηση, την απόγνωση, την τρέλλα... και εγώ έβλεπα το φόβο στα δικά του!

βουλιάζαμε και οι δύο μαζί αλλά ο καθένας για τον εαυτό του.. προσπαθούσα να τον πληγώσω ακόμα πιο πολύ, κι άλλο κι άλλο κι άλλο!...κυκλοφορούσα σαν φάντασμα, πέρναγα τις μέρες στο κρεβάτι, ξέσπαγα επάνω του...και έβλεπα τον πόνο στα μάτια του!

ζήτησα να φύγω..με άφησε.
ξαναγύρισα, ξαναέφυγα για να ξαναγυρίσω οριστικά.

ποτέ δεν μιλήσαμε.
δεν μπορούσαμε,
κανείς δεν έκανε το πρώτο βήμα...

τώρα αρχίζουμε και μιλάμε σιγά σιγά..το ένα βήμα μετά από το άλλο!
προσπαθούμε μόνοι μας...καλά πάμε!

κάνε την αρχή, μίλα του.είσαι τυχερή που έχεις πλάι σου ένα άτομο αξιόλογο.

σου εύχομαι δύναμη και κουράγιο!

αερικό είπε...

Όταν έχει φτάσει κανείς στην παραίτηση απ' τη ζωή είναι πολύ δύσκολο ν' αρπαχτεί από κάπου για να βγει μόνος του έξω απ' τη "θαλασσα" που τον πνίγει..
..δεν είμαι ικανή να συμβουλεύσω γιατι "τυφλός τυφλόν οδηγεί ες βάραθρον πεσούνται αμφότεροι" :-)
Συχνές και τακτικες επισκεψεις σε σωστο και καλο γιατρο της ψυχης και για τους δυο, πιστευω θα μπορουσαν να τραβηξουν απ' το πηγαδι και σενα και τον Κ. και ολους εμας που ειμασταν ή ειμαστε στο ιδιο σημειο..
Καιιιι...ακου τι λεει ενα παλιο ασμα: "..μην κοιτας ποτε χαμηλα
εχεις δυναμη πολυ και δεν το ξερεις
μην κοιτας ποτε χαμηλα
σου αξιζουν στη ζωη πολλα! "
:-*

Juanita La Quejica είπε...

Γιατρός της ψυχής, σίγουρα. Αλλά και αυτοπροστασία, γιατί ο Κ. είναι στην τελική υπεύθυνος για τον εαυτό του και η Μαρίνα για τον δικό της. Τόσο απλά, τόσο σκληρά, τόσο ξεκάθαρα.

Storyteller είπε...

ooops! gloup!
....

Marina είπε...

KV, αερικό,Juanita αυτό τώρα κάνω, κυττάω τον εαυτό μου. Η κατάσταση δεν βλέπω να αλλάζει, τουλάχιστον να παίρνει μιά πιό καλή μορφή, οπότε ε! δεν θα πεθάνω κιόλας..ότι θέλει ας γίνει.

μεθυσμένα χρώματα, βίοι παράλληλοι λοιπόν? Τον πόνο όμως το ξεπερνάς, βοηθάει και ο χρόνος, όταν όμως ο άνθρωπός σου έχει πρόβλημα και δεν θέλει να βοηθηθεί γιατί θεωρεί ότι μιά χαρά είναι και ότι όσοι ψάχνουν για βοήθεια είναι τρελλοί, τότε τι γίνεται? Δεν θα κόψω και τις φλέβες μου για έναν άντρα, συγνώμη που στο λέω αλλά αυτός ο άντρας χρειάζεται να κάνει κάτι πέρα απο τη κλάψα, οι ξένοι λένε "take the finger out of your ass and do something", έχω αρχίσει να νευριάζω με την όλη κατάσταση.

Marina είπε...
Αυτό το σχόλιο αφαιρέθηκε από έναν διαχειριστή ιστολογίου.
nyctolouloudo είπε...

Μαρίνα, τον πόνο δεν τον ξεπερνάς όσα χρόνια και αν περάσουν..τον γνωρίζεις μόνο καλύτερα, γίνεται πιο φιλικός μαζί σου. δεν σε ματώνει, δεν σε πολεμάει.
ο άνθρωπός μου με άντεξε, με ανέχθηκε. εάν δεν το είχε κάνει θα έκανα τώρα παρέα στους πεθαμένους.

και για την υπομονή που είχε τον ευχαριστώ από τα βάθη της καρδιά μου.

σου εύχομαι τα καλύτερα!

alombar42 είπε...

Δεν είμαι ειδικός, δεν ξέρω, δεν θέλω να πάρω καταστάσεις στο λαιμό μου και δεν δίνω... συμβουλές.

Από προσωπικές εμπειρίες όμως, υπάρχουν άνθρωποι που δεν θέλουν χάδι, θέλουν χαστούκι για να ξυπνήσουν. Ρώτα κάποιον ειδικό.
(οι ομοιοπαθητικοί είναι καλοί σε αυτά)

Marina είπε...

μεθυσμένα χρώματα, ευχαριστώ για τη συμπαράσταση αλλά θα διαφωνίσω. Τον πόνο τον ξεπερνάς, η ανάμνησή του ίσως μείνει,σαν ανάμνηση και εγώ κοντή μνήμη. Εμαθα να ξεχνάω ότι θέλω να ξεχάσω. Απλά ή το σβήνω ή το αντικαθιστώ. Η κατάσταση που μιλάς ακούγεται πιό σοβαρή απο τη δική μου. Ευτυχώς που βρέθηκε κάποιος να σε συγκρατήσει μέσα στην πίκρα σου.

Alombar42, λύση προσπαθώ να βρώ να τον βγάλω απο την βρωμοκατάσταση..όχι και να τον δείρουμε τον κακομοίρη. Εν τούτοις τα κανακέματα του παρελθόντος δεν απέδωσαν..κάτι άλλο χρειάζεται εδώ.

αερικό είπε...

Εχω κανει ομοιοπαθητικη γυρω στην 10ετια και βελονισμο γυρω στην 3ετια( και οι δυο γιατροι κορυφες στο ειδος τους απ' οτι λεγεται κι απ' οτι διαπιστωσα).
Αυτο που πρακτικα αποκομισα απ' ολα αυτα ειναι οτι ο βελονισμος εχει πιο σταθερα αποτελεσματα και για περισσοτερο χρονο.Απλα ειναι κατα πολυ ακριβοτερος απ' την ομοιοπαθητικη.
(εχω κρατησει και μερικες καλες συνηθειες απ' ολα αυτα..εχω να πιω καφε για παραδειγμα εδω και 13 χρονια..! :-))
Επισης η ομοιπαθητικη συνηθως εξαρει τα συμπτωματα της "ασθενειας" στην αρχη και μετα ερχεται η θεραπεια..(αυτο ποτε δεν μου αρεσε.:-)
Στον βελονισμο δεν συμβαινει αυτο ποτε. Εχεις ομως καμμια 45αρια βελονες πανω στο σωμα σου σκορπισμενες για κανα μισαωρο και κατι τη φορα..:-)
Παρασυρθηκα μου φαινεται..οι εναλλακτικες θεραπειες ειναι το αγαπημενο μου θεμα..:-)

Παρεπιπτοντως συμφωνω με τον alombar οτι μερικοι μερικοι θελουν "μπατσες" για να συνελθουν κι οχι χαδια..(κι ας μη μ' αρεσει η τακτικη αυτη..)

Δεν κανουμε τιποτα ομως χωρις να ρωτησουμε τους ειδημονες κι αυτοι δεν ειμαι εγω τουλαχιστον..:-)

Ανώνυμος είπε...

:((

Marina είπε...

αερικό, ευχαριστώ για τις προτάσεις, όμως η ιδέα ότι θα με τρυπάνε όλες αυτές οι βελόνες μου φέρνει τρεμούλα..με όλο το θάρρος, να λείπει.

Ανώνυμε..συμφωνώ :-((((((((

Ανώνυμος είπε...

Best regards from NY! »

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China and Russia put the blame on some screwed up experiments of US for the earthquake that happened in Haiti.
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